'Who' is going to cross over to 'where'?
Gilbert,
Hi - My name is R........, I hope you'll take a moment to read this and maybe offer a few words/pointers.
I've been reading a lot of your writings and they are some of the clearest I've read.
- I've been studying Eastern Philosophies since I was about 12 and for the past couple of years I've been reading Advaita Vedanta through Nisargadatta, Stephen Wolinsky, John Wheeler and a few others.
I feel I have a pretty good understanding of what all this is about -basically I am awareness and have always been. - The world presented to me through the senses is not what it appears; in fact it is emptiness which appears solid. - I understand on the level of the mind that all appears in this awareness and awareness is not affected by the manifest world. - In fact, I've recently partially and sort of experientially gotten that the world moves, not I. -It is just so backward to what the ordinary view of the world is that I just don't trust it.
That's where I'm at a stopping point. - I "know" this world isn't what it seems, I seem to have a lessening of attachment to this manifest world.
But I've not noticed a realization or dropping off of the sense of I.
It's definitely still there.
I'm beginning to sort of experientially feel that the body is acting on its own; thoughts are appearing out of nowhere, not something I'm doing.
Is this "movement" a natural and gradual process that helps the sense of I fall away or am I off course somehow?
Once again, I've decided to attempt to contact you because I've found what you've written to speak very clearly to me. - I've found Nisargadatta to be a sort of hammer that hits you in the head over and over, which is very necessary. - I've found your writing to be more of a knife which cuts deep. -The problem is I don't feel I've crossed over to the point where I'm experientially getting that which I always have been. - I'm still, for the most part, relating to the world in which this body lives, acts and suffers.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. - R......
Gilbert's Reply:
'Who' is going to cross over to 'where'?
See it is all just concepts.
Drop the concepts and what is left?
Naked Presence.
You are that.
R's response:
Gilbert,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. - I'm sure you get a lot of emails.
When I boil it all down and just ask myself "What am I?” - I find I have no answer. - Of course I can say - this body, a father, a network engineer, an American - but I know these are all just my outward "appearances", what I've come to be. - This is all I can say.
I find that this question delineates the outside from the inside - the "outside" answers are all obvious. - The "inside" is what my mind doesn't seem to be able to see. - I don't understand what I'm supposed to see or answer to the question "what am I?" other than that which appears as "my" life.
The mind seems to give up or get frustrated at that which is apparently not obviously there. What comes to me is - the mind is trying to objectify that which is inherently subjective. - But the door or the key, "What am I?" just seems to be another concept.
Something that immediately drew me to your words was "the Absolute Moment" or "the Timeless Moment." - I can somehow feel that this is true, that this moment is the same moment as the first moment, and the contents of that moment are changing but the moment doesn't. - In other words, there is no past or future, things aren't rolling to the past with the future coming
soon. - It's all still the same moment. - I get that somehow.
If "I" or this mind can't see it or experience it, how is it known?
- How can "awareness" know itself without the mind being involved?
Once again, I greatly appreciate your time and willingness to help. - R.
Gilbert:
When you ask 'what am I?' the concept will slide away eventually and what is left is 'seeing' - 'naked seeing' - THAT is your true nature - presence awareness.
-'You' cannot experience ‘what you are’ – not as an objective ‘thing’.
You are ‘the experiencing’ which is ceaselessly present. - It does NOT come and go - concepts about it come and go and because we identify with them all, it seems that we are those 'things'.
The mind will keep trying to objectify even those subtle insights that come.
Whatever comes, it must surely go. - Watch them go and know that you are never any of them.
You are that which never budges - but you will never know it - because you are it and the mind can only re-cognize 'things' by comparisons. (mind content is known by what?)
Everything is THAT - I am THAT - no difference.
So the clear and present evidence that I am looking for is clear and obvious and yet it does not move - so it remains a mystery for the mind - the mind will not sit still - and 'Gilbert' goes about whatever that pattern is seemingly engaged in.
What of it is real?--ALL of IT--and none of it.
This Moment is the Absolute Moment.
Yes! - THIS moment - seemingly fragmented into time lines and space patterns.
Where does it all APPEAR?
Nowhere else than in that clear and empty space of KNOWING presence that you ARE.
How do I know this and why am I so sure of it?
Because Bob Adamson 'pointed' this 'body mind' called Gilbert to the non objective fact of 'presence awareness'.
The world will not disappear--as long as the body is there; there will be at least a rudimentary 'identity' called 'I'.
It is a servant--and a practical application tool--useful in the ordinary sense.
If it takes the role of being a master, then trouble will surround you.
Look into it and see through it--as often as you can--it will become as if translucent, transparent.
It will be seen that it has no power of its own--with no independent nature and is not a separate entity.
Knowing that, it can serve you well. - Not knowing that it all slides into hell or relative realms of suffering.
Be ruthless--do not become like a Buddhist and get attached to all sorts of paraphernalia--and so seemingly become an antithesis of what the Buddha pointed out.
Be ruthless and see into it--over and over. - As Bob simply pointed out to me "Just look - take a look and see" (if what I am telling you is true or not - and I did take a look and the rest is history)
Read Bob's books, or mine if you wish, and get soaked in the 'pointers'.
The mind will start to think along the same lines and then you will start to see the truth of the pointers--not as pointers but as direct evidence in your own experiencING--always present tense when speaking about it and always the primary movement of knowing.
Always present--that is what you ARE.
Everything else--and I mean everything--everything else is an appearance in what you ARE.
As Bob says, start from the fact that you are THAT--that reality of presence--and then everything falls into place--in a split second.
In that split second 'time' collapses and it is known that I have never been in time at all.
Then, later you (may) realize that you are not IN anything--and everything is IN you and it is all equal. - All 'presence', appearing as this and that.
I was 'able' to see what Bob was indicating ('after' my 'clever esoteric attitude' was dropped).
- No one else could do it for me yet it is my own light that sees and Bob made that fact clear to me - it is a mystery. - It is significant that Bob was the only one who did not expect some reverance from me - he just 'pointed' over and over and over again with whatever was necessary - not in some mechanical way - he was (and still is for anyone else) listening to 'where I was coming from' and then 'pointing' beyond that to my true nature.
- All those previous years of absorbing very subtle esoteric teachings - none of it helped to bring me to the understanding I wished for until I met Bob who is uncompromisingly clear and present and his words carry that same clear presence. -
Overwhelming gratitude settles down and equality with the integrity of presence awareness is found to be one's ordinary awareness - no big deal.
To say 'I have realized' what Nisaragadatta and Bob have been pointing to, may sound 'too much' for 'seekers' to accept. - But that sense of presence is not concerned with what others think. - Since that is where they are caught, I can only share through these notes and let these others know that it is not beyond you to simply BE what you ARE.
Read Bob's books. - It is by NO accident that I took the trouble to transcribe some tapes of Bob's meetings to make the first book 'What's wrong with right now?'
There are many good books from the ancient texts that a clear and precise but there is no book like Bob's 1st book, which is in contemporary language with pointers in ordinary language.....
So-so-so potent.....and each pointer delivers you back to that clear and empty space of knowing presence that you ARE.
Warm regards - Gilbert
Hi - My name is R........, I hope you'll take a moment to read this and maybe offer a few words/pointers.
I've been reading a lot of your writings and they are some of the clearest I've read.
- I've been studying Eastern Philosophies since I was about 12 and for the past couple of years I've been reading Advaita Vedanta through Nisargadatta, Stephen Wolinsky, John Wheeler and a few others.
I feel I have a pretty good understanding of what all this is about -basically I am awareness and have always been. - The world presented to me through the senses is not what it appears; in fact it is emptiness which appears solid. - I understand on the level of the mind that all appears in this awareness and awareness is not affected by the manifest world. - In fact, I've recently partially and sort of experientially gotten that the world moves, not I. -It is just so backward to what the ordinary view of the world is that I just don't trust it.
That's where I'm at a stopping point. - I "know" this world isn't what it seems, I seem to have a lessening of attachment to this manifest world.
But I've not noticed a realization or dropping off of the sense of I.
It's definitely still there.
I'm beginning to sort of experientially feel that the body is acting on its own; thoughts are appearing out of nowhere, not something I'm doing.
Is this "movement" a natural and gradual process that helps the sense of I fall away or am I off course somehow?
Once again, I've decided to attempt to contact you because I've found what you've written to speak very clearly to me. - I've found Nisargadatta to be a sort of hammer that hits you in the head over and over, which is very necessary. - I've found your writing to be more of a knife which cuts deep. -The problem is I don't feel I've crossed over to the point where I'm experientially getting that which I always have been. - I'm still, for the most part, relating to the world in which this body lives, acts and suffers.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. - R......
Gilbert's Reply:
'Who' is going to cross over to 'where'?
See it is all just concepts.
Drop the concepts and what is left?
Naked Presence.
You are that.
R's response:
Gilbert,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. - I'm sure you get a lot of emails.
When I boil it all down and just ask myself "What am I?” - I find I have no answer. - Of course I can say - this body, a father, a network engineer, an American - but I know these are all just my outward "appearances", what I've come to be. - This is all I can say.
I find that this question delineates the outside from the inside - the "outside" answers are all obvious. - The "inside" is what my mind doesn't seem to be able to see. - I don't understand what I'm supposed to see or answer to the question "what am I?" other than that which appears as "my" life.
The mind seems to give up or get frustrated at that which is apparently not obviously there. What comes to me is - the mind is trying to objectify that which is inherently subjective. - But the door or the key, "What am I?" just seems to be another concept.
Something that immediately drew me to your words was "the Absolute Moment" or "the Timeless Moment." - I can somehow feel that this is true, that this moment is the same moment as the first moment, and the contents of that moment are changing but the moment doesn't. - In other words, there is no past or future, things aren't rolling to the past with the future coming
soon. - It's all still the same moment. - I get that somehow.
If "I" or this mind can't see it or experience it, how is it known?
- How can "awareness" know itself without the mind being involved?
Once again, I greatly appreciate your time and willingness to help. - R.
Gilbert:
When you ask 'what am I?' the concept will slide away eventually and what is left is 'seeing' - 'naked seeing' - THAT is your true nature - presence awareness.
-'You' cannot experience ‘what you are’ – not as an objective ‘thing’.
You are ‘the experiencing’ which is ceaselessly present. - It does NOT come and go - concepts about it come and go and because we identify with them all, it seems that we are those 'things'.
The mind will keep trying to objectify even those subtle insights that come.
Whatever comes, it must surely go. - Watch them go and know that you are never any of them.
You are that which never budges - but you will never know it - because you are it and the mind can only re-cognize 'things' by comparisons. (mind content is known by what?)
Everything is THAT - I am THAT - no difference.
So the clear and present evidence that I am looking for is clear and obvious and yet it does not move - so it remains a mystery for the mind - the mind will not sit still - and 'Gilbert' goes about whatever that pattern is seemingly engaged in.
What of it is real?--ALL of IT--and none of it.
This Moment is the Absolute Moment.
Yes! - THIS moment - seemingly fragmented into time lines and space patterns.
Where does it all APPEAR?
Nowhere else than in that clear and empty space of KNOWING presence that you ARE.
How do I know this and why am I so sure of it?
Because Bob Adamson 'pointed' this 'body mind' called Gilbert to the non objective fact of 'presence awareness'.
The world will not disappear--as long as the body is there; there will be at least a rudimentary 'identity' called 'I'.
It is a servant--and a practical application tool--useful in the ordinary sense.
If it takes the role of being a master, then trouble will surround you.
Look into it and see through it--as often as you can--it will become as if translucent, transparent.
It will be seen that it has no power of its own--with no independent nature and is not a separate entity.
Knowing that, it can serve you well. - Not knowing that it all slides into hell or relative realms of suffering.
Be ruthless--do not become like a Buddhist and get attached to all sorts of paraphernalia--and so seemingly become an antithesis of what the Buddha pointed out.
Be ruthless and see into it--over and over. - As Bob simply pointed out to me "Just look - take a look and see" (if what I am telling you is true or not - and I did take a look and the rest is history)
Read Bob's books, or mine if you wish, and get soaked in the 'pointers'.
The mind will start to think along the same lines and then you will start to see the truth of the pointers--not as pointers but as direct evidence in your own experiencING--always present tense when speaking about it and always the primary movement of knowing.
Always present--that is what you ARE.
Everything else--and I mean everything--everything else is an appearance in what you ARE.
As Bob says, start from the fact that you are THAT--that reality of presence--and then everything falls into place--in a split second.
In that split second 'time' collapses and it is known that I have never been in time at all.
Then, later you (may) realize that you are not IN anything--and everything is IN you and it is all equal. - All 'presence', appearing as this and that.
I was 'able' to see what Bob was indicating ('after' my 'clever esoteric attitude' was dropped).
- No one else could do it for me yet it is my own light that sees and Bob made that fact clear to me - it is a mystery. - It is significant that Bob was the only one who did not expect some reverance from me - he just 'pointed' over and over and over again with whatever was necessary - not in some mechanical way - he was (and still is for anyone else) listening to 'where I was coming from' and then 'pointing' beyond that to my true nature.
- All those previous years of absorbing very subtle esoteric teachings - none of it helped to bring me to the understanding I wished for until I met Bob who is uncompromisingly clear and present and his words carry that same clear presence. -
Overwhelming gratitude settles down and equality with the integrity of presence awareness is found to be one's ordinary awareness - no big deal.
To say 'I have realized' what Nisaragadatta and Bob have been pointing to, may sound 'too much' for 'seekers' to accept. - But that sense of presence is not concerned with what others think. - Since that is where they are caught, I can only share through these notes and let these others know that it is not beyond you to simply BE what you ARE.
Read Bob's books. - It is by NO accident that I took the trouble to transcribe some tapes of Bob's meetings to make the first book 'What's wrong with right now?'
There are many good books from the ancient texts that a clear and precise but there is no book like Bob's 1st book, which is in contemporary language with pointers in ordinary language.....
So-so-so potent.....and each pointer delivers you back to that clear and empty space of knowing presence that you ARE.
Warm regards - Gilbert
posted by Gilbert Schultz at Wednesday, February 21, 2007
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